What Happens When The 1 Thing You’ve Always Wanted Is Taken Away?

[00:00] Dennis: On the way up this this one hill, I start feeling a little numbness in my arms, and I go, Boy, this is really a tough hill. A few moments later, I I fall off my bike unconscious. And keep in mind it’s a remote area, so I am so lucky that two hikers happened upon me and they called 911. And it from there, it was half hour trip to the hospital. On the way, they had to shock me, like, 25 times, and that was the end of my career. One day I’m flying, the next day I can never fly again.

[00:39] Bobbi: Welcome to Un:Yielded Thriving No Matter What, where we talk about how to make your next chapter in life your best chapter. I’m your host, Bobbi Kahler, and I believe that the best is yet to come. What do you do when the thing that you love to do most in the world and the only thing you’ve ever wanted to do since you were ten years old is taken away in a heartbeat? That’s exactly what happened to this week’s guest, Dennis Mellon. In this episode, we talk about how he navigated that sudden turn of events, as well as the following how to create a positive leadership style, the downfall of micromanaging and how to avoid it, and the difference between what good leaders do and what great leaders do. And all of these apply as much at home as they do in the workplace. A little bit about my guest. Dennis Mellon brings years of leadership experience as a retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, alaska Airlines fleet captain, and a bestselling author. He’s an internationally recognized speaker, a leadership coach, and certified athletic mental performance master. You may have caught him on ABC, NBC, CBS podcasts, and radio. Let’s meet him. Dennis, welcome to the show.

[02:07] Dennis: I appreciate the opportunity to speak with your audience. It’d be great conversation here. I’m looking forward to it.

[02:14] Bobbi: Yeah, I’m looking forward to it too. And before diving into your story, do you want to give us just a little background on, I guess, your career, where you started and all that?

[02:27] Dennis: Sure. I can go way back to where I was ten years old at my father’s Air Force Base, when two F four Phantoms took off in full afterburner right in front of me. You know how you can feel that in your chest as it goes pounding by? I turned around on my dad, and I started pumping my fist and said, dad, that’s what I want to do when I grow up. Of course, my wife says I haven’t reached that point yet, but I had a signal in this purpose. I wanted to be a professional pilot, and if it was a career in the Air Force, that would be fine, too. The Air Force Academy was assigned a big air refueling tanker out of pilot training, flew that active duty for about six years, and then transferred to the reserves retired from the reserves in 1996 as a lieutenant colonel, because in the reserves, you can have a second job. About 1983, I think it was, I got into the reserves, and I also got hired by Alaska Airlines in about 1984. I flew for Alaska Airlines for 28 years until and you were going to go into my origin story until I could no longer fly.

[03:43] Bobbi: Yeah. So why don’t you tell us of course, I know your story, but tell us a little bit about what happened. You say it was when you were 56?

[03:51] Dennis: Yeah.

[03:53] Bobbi: So tell us about that.

[03:54] Dennis: Yeah. 2008, I’m thinking I’m at the peak of my career. I’m Alaska Airlines fleet captain for 650 pilots and 40 instructors. One day I’m flying. It was Alaska Airline. So I was flying from Seattle down to San Diego, and I can distinctly remember looking down at Eugene, Oregon, and going, you know, I wonder what those people are doing down there. And then I kind of chuckled to myself. I said, there’s probably somebody down there going, hey, I wonder what those guys are doing up there. Anyway, I went out mountain biking the next day, which was my form of recreation. You can’t imagine the thrill of climbing up one of those foothills east of Seattle in the Cascades and then coasting down in between the trees. It’d be much like being in well, you can relate to this, being in Colorado, slalom skiing down one of the trails on one of the resorts there. And on the way up this one hill, I start feeling a little numbness in my arms and I go, Boy, this is really a tough hill. A few moments later, I fall off my bike unconscious, and keep in mind it’s a remote area, so I am so lucky that two hikers happened upon me and they called 911, and from there it was half hour trip to the hospital. On the way, they had to shock me, like, 25 times.

[05:30] Bobbi: Oh, my God.

[05:31] Dennis: 20 times in the Er. Yeah, I’m lucky to be here.

[05:34] Bobbi: That’s all that I oh, my God.

[05:36] Dennis: Some sort of divine intervention or whatever. Yeah, that was the end of my career. One day I’m flying, the next day I can never fly again.

[05:45] Bobbi: Yeah. And you had no warning, right?

[05:47] Dennis: No, I did.

[05:47] Bobbi: No history?

[05:48] Dennis: No, I mean, as an airline pilot at the time, I was getting a physical every six months, and I was active, obviously. I was out mountain bike riding, coaching baseball and all these other outside activities is just one of those things. I think the doctors found that it was a genetic condition. And see if I remember this lateral anterior descending artery, which is otherwise known as the widowmaker. That’s right, yeah. I’m lucky to be here.

[06:24] Bobbi: Yeah.

[06:24] Dennis: Every day is a gift to me.

[06:26] Bobbi: Every day. And you’re so lucky because I’m thinking about some of the remote trails, the mountain biking trails. Either in Arkansas, where we live part of the time, and both in Colorado, some of them are so remote that.

[06:37] Dennis: Yeah, well, my wife and I have talked about this. What was I thinking going out on a remote trail by myself? I brought my cell phone, but if you’re unconscious, it’s a little hard to dial, isn’t it?

[06:57] Bobbi: But who thinks that’s going to happen?

[06:59] Dennis: No, I had no clue it was going to happen.

[07:02] Bobbi: No. Wow. So there you are. Since you’re ten years old, you want to be a pilot. No warning, it’s gone. How did you handle that?

[07:14] Dennis: Well, probably just like everybody else did. I went into this deep funk, this dark cloud follow me everywhere. I mean, I can remember sitting around the house in my sweatpants, flipping through the channels. No, I don’t need a chia pet or a set against you knives. Medicare Part B Not just yet, but with some coaxing from my friends, and I’m going to have to admit some counseling, I started contemplating what Dennis Mellon 2.0 was going to look like.

[07:49] Bobbi: Yeah.

[07:50] Dennis: I knew it was going to be aviation related, so I went through a series of jobs, aviation, but they didn’t capture that excitement anymore, so I had to make a career pivot again for the third time. And luckily this is kind of interesting. Luckily, this lady friend of mine came up to me and she said, how’d you like to speak to our group? And I said, I laughed. I said, about what? She said, Look, I’ve seen your resume. You’re a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel. You’ve been in charge of 650 pilots. Talk about leadership.

[08:27] Bobbi: That’s right.

[08:27] Dennis: And it was that dark cloud. All of a sudden, there’s this bright ray of sunshine that comes through, and I go, yeah, I could do that. So I started into the leadership workshops, speaking engagements, and eventually wrote a couple of books. One on my experience called Takes More Than the Heart, obviously about my heart attack and recovery, but another one on leadership, and I’m working on a third now.

[08:55] Bobbi: Wow. And now, does that capture some of that excitement you had?

[08:59] Dennis: Well, I have to admit, yeah, it does. Getting in front of an audience, and you’ve probably done this, you could tell within the first 30 seconds, I’ve got them.

[09:10] Bobbi: Yeah.

[09:10] Dennis: And that’s exciting, because now you know that the message is going to resonate with somebody. And at the end of the speaking engagement, if somebody comes up and just says, oh, I really got that was a great talk or something, all of a sudden you get that excitement feeling again, a little less adrenaline than going out and flying, but nevertheless, excitement.

[09:38] Bobbi: Yeah, it is a little bit of a rush.

[09:40] Dennis: Yeah. Instead of that mundane job like a lot of people have, where they have to go to work or I have to go to work, instead of, I get to go to work, I’m going to see some people, my friends, whatever gets you excited at work.

[09:56] Bobbi: Right. Well, and I think the other thing, too, is when you’re speaking, it’s the chance to make a difference.

[10:02] Dennis: Yeah.

[10:04] Bobbi: And there’s a great feeling attached to that. But now, had you ever done any speaking before that?

[10:10] Dennis: Well, obviously, in the military, presentations occurred on a regular basis and working at Alaska Airlines. But those are the type of speeches where you’re relating data. You’re not going to go through your origin story or talk about the sky, an array of sunshine, and being shocked 25 times. You’re not going to do that. I’m sure you’ve found this. People don’t remember your three main points. They remember your stories, and then they associate that main point to your story. So if you have some good stories to tell, and hopefully I do with most of the audiences, they remember what I said because of the stories.

[10:55] Bobbi: And now the stories that you share, is it the one around your heart attack and what happened when you were out there? Is that the main one?

[11:03] Dennis: Well, it depends on the audience, obviously, because I can adjust it to whatever audience. But that’s, shall we call it the show grabber the origin story of how I got into this speaking and the pivot to speaking and doing leadership seminars and workshops kind of blends right in there if you tell the story. Oh, yeah. That’s the guy that had the heart attack that’s now speaking, not, oh, here’s Dennis. Melanie speaks on leadership.

[11:37] Bobbi: Right.

[11:37] Dennis: You’re adding an element of excitement, really.

[11:41] Bobbi: Yeah. And I think authenticity.

[11:46] Dennis: Yeah, you’re right. I hadn’t thought of it in that way.

[11:48] Bobbi: Yeah. Because I think that there’s a really big difference between someone who has maybe studied something and someone who has lived it. Now, after the heart attack and you’re trying to figure out what was next, you said what was Dennis Mellon going to be? 2.0.

[12:06] Dennis: Yeah.

[12:06] Bobbi: What were some of the things you tried in terms of to find what that might be?

[12:11] Dennis: Well, let’s see. I started off with a company that flew international cargo and troops to the Middle East.

[12:17] Bobbi: Oh, my goodness.

[12:19] Dennis: I worked at Alaska Airlines. When you work for a company that you get excited about everything’s. Compared to that, this company actually went out of business, probably. I guess some people might attribute it to my fault. I don’t know. Now I’m kidding.

[12:37] Bobbi: Oh, no.

[12:37] Dennis: But when I first got there, they’d just gone through a downsizing. So all the workers are hunkered down in their own silos, and being the extrovert that I am, I just wanted to get to know them. So I started this Friday lunch bunch where we would go on. Yeah, we talked a little business, but we were starting to get to know each other, to know that Dennis lives in Illinois and Bobbi lives in Colorado and get to know each other, and pretty soon, instead of me going to my boss and my boss going to their boss and their boss going to them. We’re talking to each other because we built this rapport because of mismanagement. They went out of business, but before they went out of business, I switched to another airline up in Wisconsin, and that wasn’t very satisfying. Then I went with a consulting firm that went worldwide, and that was exciting. From the standpoint of the travel and helping Kenya Airways in Kenya or Philippine Airlines, it was exciting, but it still didn’t capture the same excitement. It was pretty mundane. We need to build our on time performance. We need to have a safety program. We need to have better statistics on how pilots are performing in simulators and things.

[14:06] Bobbi: Did it occur? Were you ever worried, like, man, I’m never going to find that excitement again?

[14:12] Dennis: Yeah, I was. I don’t know if anybody’s gone through the transition or a Pivot in their 50s, but no matter what anybody says, there’s some age discrimination. You can tell looking at a person at least what decade of their life they’re in. And who’s going to hire a 56 year old or after a couple of years closing on 60, who’s going to hire a 60 year old when they know they’re going to probably retire within five or ten years?

[14:43] Bobbi: I think the way you did it, though, by going on your own, out on your own, that’s one way that you can navigate around that.

[14:51] Dennis: Well, I’m not going to lie to you, it was a little disheartening to go through the LinkedIn glass door. Indeed. Revolving door of applications. Then really what ended up being the case was, I know a guy who knows the lady who knows it was the network.

[15:08] Bobbi: The network. What is your favorite part of the speaking, what you’re doing now?

[15:16] Dennis: Well, it’s great to get in front of almost any audience, but like I said earlier, getting into that first minute or two and knowing that you have the audience captured so you could tell them whatever, and they’re going to go, oh, that’s a great speech, because they’re going to remember the stories that you tell. I think that’s the thing, is being able to tell stories of your experience and whether you’re a 30 year old or 70 year old, you’ve got stories, you just don’t know how to express them yet.

[15:48] Bobbi: Most of us haven’t taken the time because I tell a lot of stories, too. Whenever I’m speaking, I tell stories on the podcast, whatever, and people will come up to me after, like, a presentation, and they’ll say, wow, you’ve got so many stories. I don’t have any stories. I’m like, yeah, you do. You haven’t taken the same amount of time to reflect and look at them. So what are some of your favorite stories to relate?

[16:13] Dennis: Well, I just gave one this morning to a group of networking group, and the story was basically start out with, if you want to be successful, you have to have a low IQ.

[16:33] Bobbi: Qualify.

[16:34] Dennis: There no but here’s the thing is it has nothing to do I change around. It has nothing to do with how smart you are. It’s that it’s a low I quit. It’s your persistence, your resilience. I like to tell the origin story, but on occasion, it might cause me to choke up a little bit, because I have to tell you, I loved flying.

[17:05] Bobbi: Yeah.

[17:05] Dennis: And then I can tell little stories of taking a crew of 15 in the Air Force up to Anchorage, Alaska. And this has to do with having that positive leadership style.

[17:22] Bobbi: Yeah.

[17:23] Dennis: Every day, we’re tasked with flying south over the North Pacific to meet up with a giant C Five cargo plane to refuel them so they didn’t have to stop in Anchorage, and they could go on to Korea or Japan. Well, on the last day we’re supposed to do that, come back to Anchorage, refuel, and then take off and go to Hawai. Well, one of the crew members came up and said, hey, Colonel Mellon, if we put enough fuel on the airplane, instead of coming back to Anchorage, when we finish the refueling, we’ll just turn south and go to Hawai. So we did that. And back then, this was considerable savings, but we saved over $200,000 in fuel costs. And at that point, I like to say you don’t. Come to think of it, that’s how much it’s costing to fill up my gas tank now. Yeah. We had the added benefit. We got to hawai. All 15 of us were on the beach with my ties in the hand before sunset. So perfect solution. Right. All because we had this positive leadership philosophy of, hey, your input is important.

[18:32] Bobbi: Yeah.

[18:33] Dennis: Anyway, though, I got a little bit I love that I got off subject a little bit, but it’s creating that atmosphere where people a speak up culture is what I like to call yeah.

[18:44] Bobbi: I love that, though, Dennis, because what was the rank of the person that came to you and said, hey, there’s a way we could save you money?

[18:51] Dennis: He was a master sergeant. He was the at the time, we carried flight engineers, and he was the flight engineer and really a sharp guy, just from his reputation, people would listen to him. But the fact that he brought up this great idea and we saved time, maintenance, fuel, all kinds of and you.

[19:14] Bobbi: Got to go to Hawai. Yeah.

[19:17] Dennis: And got to have a might tie.

[19:19] Bobbi: Right. I mean, if you talk about a win win, it doesn’t get much better. But I love that, and I think that so many well, number one, sometimes company and I know that it was Air Force, but sometimes companies have a culture of, well, if I didn’t invent it, if I didn’t come up with it, so then people don’t bring those.

[19:40] Dennis: Ideas forward what happens is it’s micromanaging, really. They become a single decision maker, and all the inputs have to come to them. One of the attributes of a group like that is all of a sudden, your managers and your mid level leaders just stop talking. They’re waiting for instructions from you.

[20:06] Bobbi: That’s right.

[20:07] Dennis: And you miss out on options, out on perspective.

[20:11] Bobbi: Yeah. I saw this quote one time. It was like, when your best people stop talking, you’ve got a problem.

[20:19] Dennis: Yeah.

[20:20] Bobbi: What did you do to foster that kind of culture?

[20:24] Dennis: Well, a lot of people think that when you fall into a leadership position, you automatically are qualified to do everything. You’re the end all, be all. But there’s a development process, and I like to emphasize that really developing your next generation of leaders starts in the onboarding process, where you’re creating that speak up culture, where where you’re allowing people on your team to have those positive, purposeful, productive conversations that lead to elite performance.

[21:03] Bobbi: Yeah.

[21:04] Dennis: And it comes from the leader. Leaders need to ask great questions. I think that’s what Simon SENEC says. Leaders need to or maybe it’s John Maxwell. Yeah, I can’t remember what leaders need to ask great questions and sit back and listen. The talent is not you as the leader. You have talent as a leader. But the talent in the room is what matter. The genius is in the room. And if you have somebody that tends to be a wallflower, you turn to them and you say, now, Bobbi, we’ve talked about this, this, and this. You look like you hung your head on this coming over here. What were you thinking at that moment? Think about what that does. It opens you up. I was keeping my mouth shut to be polite, but it allows me to expound on an issue that we’re discussing and bring a perspective, and it might be one that we need to implement or at least consider that’s.

[22:07] Bobbi: Right. I’m writing that down right now because I think it’s so important and I want to make sure I remember it. I think one of the qualities between a good leader and a great leader is the person who notices what’s going on in the room.

[22:22] Dennis: Yeah.

[22:24] Bobbi: And they ask the question and they listen.

[22:27] Dennis: Right. Because it’s pretty hard for people to hide their body language. It’s almost like watching a poker game. Everybody has tells.

[22:38] Bobbi: That’s right.

[22:39] Dennis: You can have that stone cold face, but you still have a tell, just a slight nod down or something. I didn’t like that comment. Or a surprise look like, yeah, I like that. Or just putting your chin out and giving that nod.

[22:58] Bobbi: I mean, some people tap their foot or they bounce their foot. It could be so many listening. That is that’s one of the reasons I was talking to my husband about this today, because I do a lot of speaking, and I also do a lot of facilitation. And I think I’ve always loved the facilitation more because facilitation is that back and forth where you kind of present something and then you’re noticing what’s going on in the room, and you have the conversation, but those are the things you’re looking for. Because what I’m facilitating when I was part of the National Speakers Association, they called the keynote speaker was the sage on the stage, and the facilitator was the guide on the side. Okay. I love that because I always think, as the Facilitator, the brilliance, the genius is already in the room, and it’s my job to bring that out. It’s not my job to have everything. And that’s kind of my philosophy, is that the wisdom is there. The brilliance is already there.

[23:56] Dennis: Yeah. Because they’re enriching the whole conversation. Because they’re bringing in their experiences.

[24:04] Bobbi: Yeah. And you’re connecting it to right down the stage.

[24:06] Dennis: On the stage.

[24:07] Bobbi: By the way, I loved it the first time I heard that. But it’s so true. I mean, it’s so powerful. So I love that. God, I had someone I was going to comment on, but I think the leader who is humble, because I think there’s humility in that, too.

[24:24] Dennis: Absolutely. Yeah. That’s the epitome of being a servant leader, the current thing that’s in vogue now. How can I help you with your job? What resources do you need? What data or what is it that I can do to help it? Period.

[24:43] Bobbi: Yeah.

[24:44] Dennis: And you actually should be working harder than your team because you’re listening and getting out on the shop floor or getting one on ones with your employees, because a lot of times, the data to make a decision, you have all this data, but you’re not getting the human side of it. You’re not getting the full story because you can’t put an emotional tag on a financial statement other than, oh, man, we made a lot of money this year, or this quarter is not looking good. That’s about as emotionally as you get. But it’s not in the report. It’s just data. And I can go to Bobbi out on the shop floor and find out, oh, yeah, these machines are breaking down more frequently, and it won’t show up in the data anymore.

[25:41] Bobbi: But there’s so much you can learn just by talking.

[25:43] Dennis: Yeah.

[25:44] Bobbi: By noticing. And here’s something. When we were talking about the noticing, as a leader, I was working with a credit union. This is a couple of years ago, and she had been with the company, I want to say for 17 years. I think her name might have been Mary. And we were talking about the moments where someone really connected with her and what it meant to her. And anytime I’ve had those conversations, it’s always been amazing to me. It’s always like it’s rarely anything big. So after 17 years, this is what made Mary almost cry. She’d been there for a couple of weeks, and the VP, his name was Casey was happened to be walking by, and he walked by her desk and he’s super busy guy. And he stopped and he walked back and he’s like, mary, you don’t quite seem like yourself today. Are you okay? 17 years later, she still gets emotional because he’s really busy. But he noticed. He cared.

[26:42] Dennis: Yeah.

[26:43] Bobbi: Right. It’s so simple.

[26:47] Dennis: Yeah. In the workshops, I talk about four C’s communications building that transparency, where we’re having free flow of stuff, which builds in that connection, where we start trusting each other and then we start getting commitment. I’m totally in on this. Company is great. And ultimately we start caring about each other, yet we’re still keeping the mission or the vision in mind.

[27:15] Bobbi: That’s right. What was the fourth one?

[27:20] Dennis: Communications. Connection, commitment and caring.

[27:24] Bobbi: Connection. Love that. Love that. And do those go in a particular order?

[27:31] Dennis: Yeah, they should go. I mean, you have to start out by talking to each other. You and I weren’t connected when we had our first phone call a month ago.

[27:39] Bobbi: That’s right.

[27:40] Dennis: We got to know each other and say, hey, this might be a good fit for a podcast. So we got that connection. And as we’re talking here, we’re starting to fill in that we can get to the ultimately to the caring, but we’re starting to get that commitment to each other.

[27:58] Bobbi: That’s right.

[28:00] Dennis: I need to keep in touch with this lady. There’s some powerful connections or cross talent that’s right. That we can exchange here. We’re into the third stage because we’ve built up some trust. Now, we could one of us could do something where the trust gets destroyed in a matter of 30 seconds.

[28:27] Bobbi: That’s right.

[28:28] Dennis: As we go through those steps now, we’re starting to we’re caring about more than each other. We’re caring about the mission and the vision that we have.

[28:36] Bobbi: I love that. I love that. There’s a simplicity, but it makes perfect sense.

[28:42] Dennis: Yeah. Some people look at it as a lot of double talking everything, but if you get down to the basic level of it, that’s what it does. And these are the type things that you can’t measure. If we have a leadership workshop, it’s going to cost this much. It ain’t going to cost it’s an investment. It’s an investment. What’s working today is not going to work tomorrow, so you better be improving your leadership skills. Look at what we’ve had to do over the last ten years with oh, my goodness. Working with everybody from Boomers to Gen Z’s, and we don’t have the same exact values or the same vision of where we want to go. The Gen Xers are about themselves a little bit more than us, but they’re concerned about everybody in a different way. They’re concerned about environment and government regulations and those type of things.

[29:50] Bobbi: Yeah. And the thing is, the connection piece, I think that’s really important. And the four C’s what it reminds me of is it’s a way of kind of building relationships. Yeah. And years ago, I was invited. DaVita Health had a leadership conference, and I’d done some work with them, and they just invited me, like, hey, do you want to come to our leadership conference? The whole reason I went, I think the Chief Learning Officer, everyone called him Yoda, and I think that was his official title, Yoda. And I’m like, Well, I have to go hear what Yoda has to say. I don’t know the guy’s name, but Yoda was talking, and he was saying that we always talk about, oh, we need to build relationships. We need to build relationships. And he said, relationships are built upon a series of interactions. And that’s what the four C’s that’s what it kind of reminds me of.

[30:43] Dennis: Kind of a process to get there, right?

[30:44] Bobbi: Yeah, that’s right. You got to have the process. So I love that. Okay, I got a question for you. If someone else has gone through or is going through either something similar to what you went through, maybe it’s not health related, but the road they were on is now shifted. The path was blown up. What advice do you have for them?

[31:10] Dennis: You know, what popped into my mind was, I don’t know if it’s a Japanese samurai saying or a Japanese saying, but I think it goes something like nona Karobi aoki, which stands for fall down seven times, get up eight. And no matter what happens, instead of looking at that failure as a failure, I was talking about this morning, somebody asked me something similar. Thomas Edison’s. Perfect example.

[31:42] Bobbi: Yeah.

[31:42] Dennis: 10,000 tries before he got that light bulb to work, they said, how did you handle 10,000 failures? He said, I didn’t look at them as failures. I figured it was 10,000 different ways that don’t work until I found the one that did. And that’s persistence and resilience, grit, grind, whatever you want to call it. But that’s an amazing story. It’s not so much that he was brilliant, it’s that he worked harder than everybody else.

[32:13] Bobbi: Yeah.

[32:13] Dennis: If you don’t like where you are or what you’re doing, work harder. Find something different. It’s important for you to keep looking at whatever challenge comes your way. Find the opportunity, find the lesson, if nothing else, so that you can keep moving forward.

[32:32] Bobbi: Right. As long as you find the lesson.

[32:36] Dennis: I’m starting to sound like a cheerleader here, aren’t I?

[32:41] Bobbi: But no pompoms. No, I’m not into pompoms. So, Dennis, this has been delightful. Where can people find more about you? What you do, that kind of thing?

[32:53] Dennis: Well, as you can see on the well, no, this is going to be audio only. I have a background that shows Full Throttleleadership.com. I’m on all the usual social media under Dennis Mellon or Full Throttle leadership and Instagram, I think might be. If I remember right, Dennis Mellon speaks.

[33:19] Bobbi: Okay, very good.

[33:21] Dennis: Some of the ways that you can get in there.

[33:23] Bobbi: Yeah. And if you want to send me those links, I’ll put those all in the show notes. Okay.

[33:27] Dennis: Yeah, I can do that easy.

[33:28] Bobbi: Perfect. Well, I just want to say thank you again. This has been a lot of fun. Thanks for sharing your story, too. And thank goodness for those hikers. I say thank goodness for those hikers.

[33:39] Dennis: Yeah. EMTs and being persistent, not going, oh, this is the 25th time.

[33:49] Bobbi: Absolutely.

[33:51] Dennis: There’s a lot to be thankful there. I live day by day.

[33:56] Bobbi: Yeah. That’s all any of us can do. Or maybe that’s what we should do. It changes our gratitude a little bit.

[34:03] Dennis: Yeah.

[34:05] Bobbi: All right, well, thank you.

[34:06] Dennis: Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate the conversation. I enjoyed it.

[34:10] Bobbi: Me, too. I hope that you found some ideas and inspiration in that conversation. I absolutely love talking about leadership, and it’s always a delight to connect with others on that. I hope that you check out Dennis’s website and his speaking topics. And other than that, I just want to thank you for tuning in and for listening. If you haven’t done so already, now is a great time to hit that subscribe button so that you never miss another episode. And I’m sending you tons of positivity and hope that you have a terrific week and that you continue to thrive no matter what.